tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2799914692887174209.post8543598559787780944..comments2024-01-15T21:30:40.609+03:00Comments on Istanbul's Stranger: Signs of Spring?Strangerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09933997864575809110noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2799914692887174209.post-25989987202442143992011-04-24T21:51:29.064+03:002011-04-24T21:51:29.064+03:00Whenever BE's family does something that seems...Whenever BE's family does something that seems traditional (when I'm wearing my Margaret Mead hat, anyway), I'm never sure if it's a Turkish thing, a Muslim thing, an Alevi thing, or a Sivas thing.<br /><br />A couple of weekends ago, the MIL met my new cleaner, who's also from Sivas (though not Alevi). MIL tried her best to be critical (of the cleaner's work, of me for choosing the cleaner), but within minutes they'd established where they were from in Sivas and that the cleaner's village was where the tomato carts to MIL's village had come from. Then they sighed over the goodness of those tomatoes, and in the next breath were laughing over some Sivas inside jokes.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure they both know all about the cemre.<br /><br />You're right though, that it's interesting what people choose to give away to outsiders, and how they choose to give it.Strangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933997864575809110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2799914692887174209.post-13004734336525468192011-04-24T03:21:18.931+03:002011-04-24T03:21:18.931+03:00I shut up for that long? Anyway, good to be back ...I shut up for that long? Anyway, good to be back then. <br /><br />I don't use cemre anymore. In fact I hadn't even heard mention of it aroudn me in years. Yes, the way it was around my grandma was basically you'd eyeball the date look at the weather and opine that one of the cemre that did fall or failed to do so for some unknown reason. They do that, you know. OTOH, you are in an Alevi family and perhaps it has more significance among them and comes with more elaborate stories. (You do know that up till very recently they kept to themselves and didn't tell others about many of their ways and traditions, right? For example many things that I thought were ordinary <i>turku</i>s or even kid's limericks, turn out to be <i>nefes</i>-based and have deeper religious significance. This country and the people here aren't all that transparent even to the natives.)Bulent Murtezaoglunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2799914692887174209.post-12731861095882588672011-04-23T23:15:54.055+03:002011-04-23T23:15:54.055+03:00Yay! I thought I'd lost you, Bülent.
If it...Yay! I thought I'd lost you, Bülent.<br /><br />If it's a matter of tolerating ambiguity, I'm fine with that. <br /><br />I'd never heard anything about a fireball until I looked it up on Wikipedia. I thought the cemre was something intrinsic to the earth, and in the water and air therein. People talk about the cemre falling, and you say "What is cemre?" and they say "Cemre işte, cemre duşuyor yaa..." <br /><br />So I figured it had to do with the ground settling, and it was something farmers knew about but not city folk. I was thinking that if a field had been tilled in late fall/early winter and kind of froze that way, then in the spring thaw (and perhaps coming with the lowering of that certain type of spring fog/mist that hangs on the ground in the morning, which could encompass the water and air) the ground kind of settles and starts looking ready for the spring till. Or something like that.<br /><br />But I kind of like your way better. Maybe if I talk about it enough, I'll get it without realizing it.Strangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933997864575809110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2799914692887174209.post-57665802919350657742011-04-23T16:44:45.989+03:002011-04-23T16:44:45.989+03:00I think the problem is one of language rather than...<i>I think the problem is one of language rather than knowledge. I can't get it in Turkish, and most people find it hard to explain in English.</i><br /><br />Nope. AFAIR, it is one of those things nobody really knows but are perfectly at peace with not knowing. Old style calendars (eg Saatli Maarif Takvimi is like the Old Farmers' Almanac in that regard) and old folks say these things as if they were explanations and everybody plays along. It hadn't occurred to me to look up the <a href="http://www.nisanyansozluk.com/?k=cemre" rel="nofollow">etymology of 'cemre'</a> up till a few seconds ago for example. <br /><br />I once looked up a word (kaybana AKA gaybana) that was used in my family and found the <a href="http://www.eksisozluk.com/show.asp?id=10204775" rel="nofollow">the explanation of the non-existance of the explanation</a> to be good. Perhaps, 'cemre' should be treated like that. Just say it with confidence when the occasion arises and at the appropriate times of the year and you'll be fine.Bulent Murtezaoglunoreply@blogger.com