tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2799914692887174209.post3163814779848930069..comments2024-01-15T21:30:40.609+03:00Comments on Istanbul's Stranger: Headscarf Part IIStrangerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09933997864575809110noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2799914692887174209.post-38317694611963522932008-03-03T11:30:00.000+02:002008-03-03T11:30:00.000+02:00I thank you for your comments Bülent-- you're givi...I thank you for your comments Bülent-- you're giving a larger historical context that I lack. I mean, I didn't think the Republic was formed in a vacuum or brought about by the West, but at the same time, there are large gaps in what I know or think I know. I really did think there was a 'coup clause' in the Constitution placed there by Atatürk, because that's what I've been told so many times. As you point out, most of the population here is young, but they are the ones who are often sources of information. Sometimes history sounds like there was an overly romanticized Ottoman era where all religions and ethnicites lived together in perfect peace and harmony, then nothing happened for awhile, then there was WWI and Çannakkale, the Atatürk came and everything was wonderful again. Whether it's selective memory of informants or selective teaching of history, I don't know. I suspect something like the latter, only because I have similar gaps in what I was taught in American history. To me, it seems like nothing happened between the end of the Civil War and the beginning of WWI, while in fact I have the vague idea that there was a long period of civil unrest and Socialist/workers' movements, but knowledge of this period doesn't serve the fantasy of the American ideal or help create happy workers.<BR/><BR/>My husband is Alevi. Growing up in the 80s, his parents didn't even tell him this until he was about 12, when they thought it was 'safe' for him to maybe mention this fact in public. While his paranoia about the greater conspiracies threatening the Republic isn't his alone, it's probably exacerbated by the fears passed to him by his family, and he is, admittedly, a source of a lot of my information.<BR/><BR/>I think it's possible the school where I worked overly 'colored' my view of modern Turkey, in that it was much more religious than the outside environment and there was a very strong Fethullah connection, often leaving me with a sense that something secret was going on, or that the winds of religious takeover were blowing harder than they are. Not the underground Nurcu jihad training camps so many Turks warned me about, but a certain pressure among Turkish students and staff (NOT on me, I might add) to convert to this type of Islam and to participate in religious meetings and regular prayer.<BR/><BR/>I think this is a really important point:<BR/>"This is not a country created by Western fiat and handed to some religous figure, nor is it one that survived because of her national resources (ie not needing teh citizenry to be productive -- just passive)."<BR/>It's something I've not thought about very much, but I think it goes a long way towards explaining why Turkey is so different from the rest of the ME...<BR/><BR/>Thanks again.Strangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09933997864575809110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2799914692887174209.post-88317218737075990472008-03-03T08:11:00.000+02:002008-03-03T08:11:00.000+02:00Here are some more nitpicking and random comments:...Here are some more nitpicking and random comments:<BR/><BR/><I>This is something Atatürk included in the constitution-- that if the government starts doing anything that poses a threat to secularity, the military has the right to throw them out and take control.</I><BR/><BR/>No. This coup business started in 1960 (that is for the republic, looking at Ottoman history might prove instructive but I'm unsure how appropriate it would be). There's nothing in the constitution that says coups can or ought to happen. That said, the army's role is indeed defined as protecting the republic, and the first speech after coup of 80 <A HREF="http://sozluk.sourtimes.org/show.asp?t=turk+silahli+kuvvetleri+ic+hizmet+kanunu" REL="nofollow">did cite</A> its own regulations. <BR/><BR/><I>Turks may forget how to drive when it's raining, but their country is really something to be proud of. It's one of the only predominantly Muslim countries in the world that isn't an Islamic or Sharia state. People can be as Muslim or un-Muslim as they want to be, and no one's getting their hands cut off for stealing or getting arrested for a tendril of hair sticking out of a veil.</I><BR/><BR/>It isn't like hands were getting chopped off here before 1923 either. I know you know what I am going to say but I will point it out nonetheless. This is not a country created by Western fiat and handed to some religous figure, nor is it one that survived because of her national resources (ie not needing teh citizenry to be productive -- just passive). There was a multi-ethnic, multi-religous Empire here before the republic and the new state wasn't created from scratch. Ataturk's reforms can be seen as a continuation or culmination of the process that started in the 19th century by the Ottomans (most notably <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat" REL="nofollow">Tanzimat</A>). The new republic, of course, did allow and encourage the adoption of the secular lifestyle among the Muslim populace by shedding the "Islamic" aura of the government and by suppressing religious dissent. What it did for women goes without saying of course. <BR/><BR/>So the "we'll become Iran" propaganda is probably doing much harm by obscuring the issue. What's really feared is not that the people's hands will get chopped off or anything like that, but that the apparatus of the state will re-acquire the religious nature in some other form. Perhaps you can imagine that surly waiter you know acquiring government authority/power and using it in much the same way he does in the restaurant (well, he did kinda acquire it actually). The fear is that people will have to exhibit some sort of piety or be regarded as undesirable by the gov't apparatus and the people employed by it. Keep in mind that the government apparatus here includes all levels of education. (If you can get hold of any Alevis who're willing to talk, you'll find out there might be other fears as well.) <BR/><BR/>Disclaimer: take everything I say with a grain of salt. My knowledge of the country is mainly from the 70s and part of the 80s. As I am sure you've been told, a lot has changed after the coup of '80 especially regarding religion. Half of the present population here is below 28, and they have lived and gone to school in a far different climate than I have. Since you say you've taught at a school where 80-90% of the female students used the headscarf, it is clear to me that you have more relevant first hand experience in today's Turkey than I do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2799914692887174209.post-87075437258570909272008-03-02T22:22:00.000+02:002008-03-02T22:22:00.000+02:00Glad you beat me to it. Some food for thought ther...Glad you beat me to it. Some food for thought there about the way Turkey has changed over the last couple of years. I think I must go around with my eyes closed sometimes as I hadn't noticed those changes you talk about, but you're right.siobhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01230841810118051830noreply@blogger.com